Originally published on October 10, 2023 (Episode 337)
Introduction
“Today’s international system is like a ship adrift during a pandemic. With the captain lost to the virus, and the most capable and conscientious members of the crew self-isolating in their cabins, the deck is now teeming with contagious megalomaniacs. Rather than collaborate, each thinks he knows how to steer the ship better than the admirals.”
So begins Jason Pack’s Libya and the Enduring Global Disorder. It is both a study of Libya’s recent upheavals and an exploration of the structural dysfunctions of today’s international system. Pack argues that Libya is not just a local tragedy but a symptom of larger global pathologies: fragmented leadership, broken alliances, and the difficulty of collective action in a disordered world.
Pack is also NATO Foundation Senior Analyst, co-host of the new Disorder podcast, and international man of mystery— kidnapped not once but twice in Syria, a one-time wine tour guide in Georgia, a backgammon champion, and also (bless him) a Historically Thinking super fan. In this wide-ranging conversation, he talks about Libya, his book, his new podcast, Georgian wine, and how Historically Thinking shaped his approach to history and strategy.
About the Guest
Jason Pack is NATO Foundation Senior Analyst, author of Libya and the Enduring Global Disorder, and co-host of the Disorder podcast.
For Further Investigation
Jason Pack, Libya and the Enduring Global Disorder (OUP, 2022)
Lorenzo Rusconi, “Backgammon and the Meaning of Life”, Medium, June 28, 2017
The Georgian Wine House — importers of Georgian wines to the U.S.
The Birthplace of Wine Experience — guided tours of Georgian wine history
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💬 Listen & Discuss
If Libya reflects the fractures of the global order, what lessons can be drawn for today’s great powers? Is disorder the new normal—or can the international system still be repaired? Share your thoughts in the comments, and pass this episode along to someone who follows world politics and foreign policy—along with Steele Brand talking about Polybius. Who knows, it might also change their lives.
