Originally published on June 11, 2025 (Episode 410)
Introduction
“How we think about revolution,” writes my guest Dan Edelstein, “is ultimately conditioned by how we think about history.”
Classical philosophers viewed history as chaotic and directionless, and sought to keep historical change—especially revolutions—at bay. “Revolutions,” so far as Greeks and Romans were concerned, “were more likely to bring about death and destruction than universal harmony.”
This conception prevailed until the eighteenth century. It was then—and only then, Edelstein argues—that Enlightenment thinkers conceived of history as a form of progress and of revolution as its catalyst, completely inverting the ancient model. These ideas were put to the test during the French Revolution and came to define revolutions well into the twentieth century. When revolutions and progress failed to bring about consensus, the only logical explanation was that one’s enemies were wrong—certainly in error, and possibly evil, needing reeducation or even elimination from the body politic.
In this episode, Dan Edelstein and I discuss his latest book The Revolution to Come: A History of an Idea from Thucydides to Lenin (Princeton, 2025). Together we explore how the concept of revolution evolved from ancient skepticism to Enlightenment optimism, and how this shift influenced modern political movements and ideologies.
About the Guest
Dan Edelstein is the William H. Bonsall Professor of French and (by courtesy) Professor of Political Science and of History at Stanford University. He is the author of several books, the most recent book of which is The Revolution to Come: A History of an Idea from Thucydides to Lenin.
For Further Investigation
Dan Edelstein, The Revolution to Come: A History of an Idea from Thucydides to Lenin (Princeton, 2025)
—, The Terror of Natural Right: Republicanism, the Cult of Nature, and the French Revolution (Chicago, 2009)
Related Episodes
There are many, many episodes in the catalog that relate to this conversation. Here are just a few—I could probably link to twenty, if I wanted to.
Barry Strauss on Thucydides
Steele Brand on Polybius of Megalopolis
“A New Age Now Begins”: Jeremy Popkin on the French Revolution
Colin Jones on the fall of Robespierre
“Revolutionary Age”: Nathan Perl-Rosenthal on the Atlantic Revolutions
“Devils’ Rise”: James Crossland on the revolutionary act as a means of changing history
Rick Hernandez on the Russian Revolution
Listen & Discuss
What do you think: are revolutions engines of progress, or harbingers of chaos? Share your thoughts in the comments—or better yet, send this episode to a friend who has strong opinions about 1789 or 1917.
